Γοργίας Free download ´ 5

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Prestige or genuine concern for the moral betterment of the citizens These uestions go to the heart of Athenian democratic principles and are relevant than ever in today's political climate What I recall about Gorgias again from my sopho university philosophy class was that there was a lengthy discussion of orators and how they are able to dupe audiences even folks technical than the orator himherself That sounds eerily relevant right now given that 17M people voted against the Commander and Thief who in 2012 criticised the very electoral college to which he owes his election His campaign promises were all smoke and mirrors as Gorgias delightfully admits to in his dialog Perhaps along with The Republic a critical read in our troubled times

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Γοργίας

Taking the form of a dialogue between Socrates Gorgias Polus and Callicles GORGIAS debates perennial uestions about the nature of government and those who aspire to public office Are high m Well if one was to sum up it would be hard to go past Plato s own summary And of all that has been said nothing remains unshaken but the saying that to do injustice is to be avoided than to suffer injustice and that the reality and not the appearance of virtue is to be followed above all things as well in public as in private life and that when any one has been wrong in anything he is to be chastised and that the next best thing to a man being just is that he should become just and be chastised and punished also that he should avoid all flattery of himself as well as of others of the few or of the many and rhetoric and any other art should be used by him and all his actions should be done always with a view to justice I ve read this book as someone who is an atheist and therefore someone who can place little concern on the rewards or punishments of the afterlife Much of Plato s argument is supported by the idea that we should be moral in this life to avoid punishment in the next life I would like to think that his conclusions still stand for an atheist even if his arguments do not I m not sure how well Socrates answers Callicles arguments or rather attack Nietzsche later says much the same things about Socrates and his arguments his denial of life and how ugly Socrates is and how lacking in taste and common sense It seems clear for much of the text that Callicles is bored by Socrates arguments and only agrees to continue listening to Socrates because Gorgias asks to hear the rest of what Socrates has to say he abandons participation in the argument which is not the same as him being silenced by Socrates argument I would very much doubt that Callicles came away from this encounter feeling that Socrates was right and that one should prefer to suffer harm than to do harm The myth at the end was all very Christian and it is easy to see why Plato was so easy to be used by the Church I found it very interesting that at least two of what are taken to be standard Christian messages are clearly put forward by Socrates turn the other cheek literally in those terms too and the problem the rich and powerful will have in getting into paradise The import of this dialogue seem to me to be an even clearer statement of the golden rule than that contained in the Christian message surely the idea that we must avoid doing ill even prefering bad things to be done to us is virtuous than merely treating others as we would like to be treated ourselves So the uestion for me is whether it is possible to establish this as a conclusion an atheist could follow And to be honest I don t know I can t see what an atheist could base the good that is necessary to sustain this argument on Socrates is than willing to be prepared to die for his truth because he knows there is an afterlife in which the pleasures and sufferings of this life are as nothing His argument is that doing wrong harms the wrong doer s soul I think this is true even if I don t believe in a soul as such If we know we have done wrong there is nothing worse than feeling we have been rewarded for it When I was a child my mother caught me cheating at patience or solitaire for my American cousins I must have been old enough for her merely saying Are you cheating to not really count for much But what did count was when she said You are only cheating yourself I ve often wondered if that is a good lesson or not I still don t cheat and try to avoid situations where I can cheat myself or others but it does often seem that those who do cheat perhaps both themselves and others do end up better off And people do seem to have a near infinite capacity to rationalise away their actions so that they always do tend to see themselves in the end as entirely justified Plato s myth at the end of this dialogue where the wrong souls are being sent to the wrong places because they were being judged in their worldly finery just before they die seems relevant here Perhaps a means of attack on this is that the benefits of doing wrong are generally short lived you cheat and the benefit is rather fleeting but the knowledge that you cheated that you are the sort of person who would cheat that can be something that lasts with you all of your life Perhaps then this is the ground to support Plato s conclusions without resorting to his arguments that in the end one needs to be able to live with one s self and that is easier to do if we have been wronged than if we have wronged others That the punishments we inflict upon ourselves for wronging others are often worse than the punishments others would give us if they were to punish us I enjoyed this than the last time I read it the last time I read it I was much concerned that Socrates did not really answer Callicles s argument I still don t think he answers it but I m not as concerned now

Summary Γοργίας

Oral standards essential or should we give our preference to the pragmatist who gets things done or negotiates successfully Should individuals be motivated by a desire for personal power and Men do bad when they do what they merely think best rather than what they most deeply desire That seems to be the central point of this long dialogueThe age old uestion is how to get men to follow their true Will ie Self rather than ego Does the dialogue answer it The answer it gives appears to be Engage in the combat of life live as well as you can and then after death you will attain the Islands of the Blessed and not the realm of the wretched Tartarus But that doesn t answer the uestion of how to distinguish between the desires of ego and the true Will


10 thoughts on “Γοργίας

  1. says:

    Γοργίας Gorgias dialogue Plato Walter Hamilton Translator Chris Emlyn Jones CommentaryHarmondsworth Penguin Books 1960 1339 In 149 Pages‬Gorgias is a Socratic dialogue written by Plato around 380 BC The dialogue depicts a conversation between Socrates and a small group of sophists and other guests at a dinner gathering In the Gorg

  2. says:

    A Starker DialogueGorgias is very similar in structure content focus and argument with the Republic In fact it comes across almost a half formed version of it and scholars argue that it is in many ways like an early sketch for Republi

  3. says:

    Well if one was to sum up it would be hard to go past Plato’s own summary “And of all that has been said nothing remains unshake

  4. says:

    for philosophy Socrates if pursued in moderation and at the proper age is an elegant accomplishment but too much philosophy is the ruin of human life Gorgias is easily one of Plato’s best stand alone dialogues Indeed as others have mentioned it often reads like a germinal version of the Republic so closely do

  5. says:

    Men do bad when they do what they merely think best rather than what they most deeply desire That seems to be the central point of this long dialogueThe age old uestion is how to get men to follow their true Will ie Self rather than ego Does th

  6. says:

    We should devote all our own and our community's energies towards ensuring the presence of justice and self discipline and so guaranteeing happinessSo Socrates wanted to make Athens great again and along the way gave the pundits and consultants the what for His argument is measured and allows the three stooges

  7. says:

    This book is a masterpiece It includes a critical text and a line by line philological commentary But even the reader without Greek will learn an enormous amount about Plato and related topics by reading it alongside a translation just skip all the entries dealing with purely philological mattersIt is often said that the best commentary on Aristotle is Aristotle Hence important commentaries on Aristotle spend

  8. says:

    An excellent example of philosophy justifying itself Everybody has heard the whole cranky rather arrogant and patronizing remark made when someone who doesn't read very much or doesn't read for pleasure or instruction feels like scoffing a bit Why are you reading this boring old stuff Philosophy's good when you

  9. says:

    What I recall about Gorgias again from my sopho university philosophy class was that there was a lengthy discussion of orators and how they are able to dupe audiences even folks technical than the orator himherself That sounds eerily relevant right now given that 17M people voted against the Commander and Thief who in 2012 criticised the very electoral college to which he owes his election His campaign promises

  10. says:

    First time reading something for a university discussion Meaning my first university discussion not my first time reading something for that purpose💁

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